What makes porn different from mainstream film? As a Berlin-based porn film producer, Paulita Pappel has made it her mission to bring porn into the mainstream. In her long career and her book, Pornopositiv, she is committed to destigmatising consumption of and discussion around porn.
We spoke about her work and wishes for the future of this industry.
Paulita Pappel, your first book is called Pornopositiv. What do you mean with this title?
It’s based on the concept of sex positivity. Sex positivity doesn’t necessarily mean that you have a lot of sex, or that everyone should have a lot of sex. Rather, it means that you have a positive attitude towards sex in general. For me, “porn positivity” is the next logical step after sex positivity.
You are a porn film producer and co-curator of the Berlin Porn Film Festival, but you also work as an intimacy coordinator in film productions, for instance for Netflix. Should the sentence “I’m going to shoot a porno” feel as normal as “I’m going to the office”?
There is this concept of “whorearchy” – basically, a combination of the words “whore” and “hierarchy”
Yes! Absolutely. Porn is just like any other job. An example: because I work in both the film and porn industries, I bring a lot of people from film onto porn shoots, whether for set design or camera. At the end of the day, everyone tells me that it was exactly the same – they were just doing their job. The only difference was that people were naked and having sex.
You moved to Berlin from your hometown of Madrid when you were 17. Why Berlin?
Because Berlin is the place where people go to let off steam with their sexuality and live differently from what’s prescribed to them. I knew immediately that I was in the right place.
You then moved into the autonomous housing project Liebig 34 in Friedrichshain.
Yes, after six or seven months of being here. I wasn’t there for very long, either. I then moved on to Kreuzberg.
Wasn’t it a bit strange dating cis men while living in a queer feminist housing project that doesn’t allow cis men?
This actually caused conflict for me. I still dated cis men – I just couldn’t take them home.
And the women there weren’t allowed to know that?
Yes. When I was [at Liebig 34], most of the others living there were lesbian. Later there were many hets living there as well. But that’s why it was good practice – there’s this matter-of-factness with which men appear all over the world, but here was a place where this wasn’t the case.
When you moved to Berlin in 2005, did you already know that porn was exactly what you wanted to be doing?
No, I still thought porn was bad! It took a really long time. I had all my other coming-outs – lesbian, pan, queer, whatever – but none of that was an issue for my parents. Not for me, either. But coming out to porn was really difficult. I thought there was something wrong with me. I had two lecturers during my studies at the Freie Universität who opened my horizons.
The Germans are sexually enlightened and not as prudish as the Anglo-Saxon world
According to your book, the term “sex work” was mentioned in a gender studies seminar. You said, “I learned that pornography is a medium that can be used for feminist practice.”
This was the missing puzzle piece for me. Suddenly, everything made sense! My sexuality, who I am, what I want.
Why do you use the terms “sex work” and “pornography” interchangeably?
I consider [“sex work” to be] all types of work that have to do with sex, because I think we should show solidarity with all types of sex work. There is this concept of “whorearchy” – basically, a combination of the words “whore” and “hierarchy” – as a hierarchy of people involved with sex work in terms of social status.
Who is at the top, and who is at the bottom?
At the top are “cam girls” – people who have no physical contact with other people. Then, more or less, comes porn. And at the bottom, *way* at the bottom, is full-service sex work. And of course street prostitutes. I’ve also stopped saying that I make feminist porn.
Why?
The term “feminist porn” perpetuates this stigma towards the mainstream porn industry. It doesn’t change anything. No, we need to reverse the mindset that porn is bad.
What do you call your films now?
Cinematic, in part. I operate two platforms. One is for amateur porn, which I call “documentary porn”. The other is just cinematic.
Your main cinematic subject is gangbang films – often one woman and multiple men. For many, this might seem like a threatening constellation.
Many women have rape fantasies. That’s okay – no one should be ashamed of it.
Because society still gives us the image that all men have a crazy high libido and always want to have sex, and women who are the ones who give the sex. This is an extremely sexist notion. I very much hope that we see women, men and people of all genders as sexual subjects who desire themselves, have limits, but can also meet each other on equal terms, without a power imbalance.
Where does this interest in gangbangs come from?
I’m an only child. A gangbang situation is an only child’s dream. You are the centre of attention. Everyone is busy with you, there for your enjoyment, to satisfy you. For me, a gangbang is heaven. Heavenly.
How do you finance sex films these days when everything is freely available online?
This is very difficult. We have no distribution channels other than the internet; DVDs are over. The problem is, the options to promote our product are so limited, that we need to get traffic. And that’s only possible via the free platforms, where porn is free. Basically, we have to work with companies that ultimately harm our business model.
And your customers then pay voluntarily?
Yes, many. There are several reasons to pay for porn. First of all: quality. Of course, you can find everything for free online, but you may be on a platform that also has illegal content. This can be very dangerous if you accidentally download something that may not be pornography, but rather child abuse. Then you’ll have a real problem. On platforms like Lustery and Hardwerk, however…
The two platforms that you co-run…
…you know where you stand. You don’t get any weird pop-ups or viruses on your computer. And, if you like a product and want to see more of it, then you simply have to pay for it.
Even if you no longer produce “feminist porn”, you’re still making porn as a feminist – something that other feminists may condemn as the exploitation of women. What do you think of this?
Of course, in the porn industry, like any other industry, there are power imbalances, and men who exploit these power imbalances are assholes… of course you have to criticise that. But the idea that there is anything misogynistic about the depiction of explicit sexuality is completely absurd. Why?
Isn’t the obligatory final ejaculation into the woman’s face rather degrading? Not to mention porn about rape fantasies?
I don’t think so.
Yes, well, surely you have to think so too, purely professionally.
No, I don’t have to. I could also say: I don’t do this porn, I’m against it, I think that’s stupid. But I am very sure that sexuality and sexual fantasies are healthy. Many women have rape fantasies. That’s okay – no one should be ashamed of it.
Of course, that doesn’t mean that they actually want to be raped in real life. I don’t think porn promotes that in reality. On the contrary, the taboo-isation of sexual fantasies leads to a lack of communication, a lack of information, frustration and, in the worst case, real violence. That’s why we need to talk openly and shamelessly about sexual fantasies and their complexities.
And their bizarreness, sometimes. What about this genre of porn where a woman gets her upper body stuck in a washing machine and then some guy comes along and unzips his pants?
Yes, it’s so silly! That’s the thing. There is a lightness to pornography! Of course, no one gets stuck in a washing machine. But it plays with clichés, even sexist ones: the woman and the washing machine! And I think humour is a good strategy to lighten up certain things.
Why is Germany the international leader in porn consumption?
My explanation would be that the Germans are sexually enlightened and not as prudish as the Anglo-Saxon world on the whole. That’s why the porn addiction debate is much more intense here.
Apparently men who consume a lot of porn are less likely to have sex, while women who watch porn are even more likely to have sex. From that standpoint, shouldn’t men then be banned from porn?
Different studies arrive at different results. Many men watch porn AND have sex. But what’s interesting about the study you mention is how women’s sexuality is otherwise limited, and that watching porn is liberating for women. I find that exciting, especially for women!
Do you sometimes watch porn at home to relax?
I have been in the porn industry for at least 10 years – it has become my main job, as a producer, director and platform operator. When curating the Berlin Porn Film Festival, I of course watched a lot of porn. In my private life, I hadn’t watched any porn in a long time. But I wasn’t masturbating much either. When I started masturbating more, I also started watching more porn privately. I do this a lot more now than I used to, funnily enough.
What’s a sexual fantasy of yours that hasn’t been made into film yet?
Ooohhh, exciting! How many can I name?
Let’s stick with the top three.
First: where I do a gangbang and a dominatrix controls the whole thing. Second: I would like to be on the more dominant side. This is something I haven’t explored much, either privately or in porn. It’s curious – the older I get, the more interested I am in it. And third: a real feature film.
What would the porn scene have to look like for you to say: I’m satisfied?
When porn is on Netflix, in the cinema and at the Berlinale.
When will the first real porn be presented at the Berlinale?
I predict that we will see a completely pornographic feature film there within the next five years.
And who will have directed it?
Paulita Pappel! [laughs]
- About the interviewee: Under the pseudonym Paulita Pappel, the Spanish-born director, 35, shoots and produces porn films. She started as an actress while studying literature at the FU. She has served as a curator of the Berlin Porn Film Festival since 2013. Pappel also runs two online porn platforms, Lustery and Hardwerk, with her partner. Under her real name, she works as an intimacy coordinator for film productions, among other things.
- Pornopositiv by Paulita Pappel, Ullstein Paperback, 208 pages, €16.99
This interview was translated from the German by Alexandra Ertman.
